The Problems With Atheists (Finally Figured Out)

Atheists are people who believe that God does not exist.

In the course of running this blog, I have encountered some of them and have had various interactions with them. From some of my interactions with them, I could see that even though they all claim God does not exist, many of them still have problem with God.

They sometimes question His love, His justice and His character and are obviouly angry at Him. One of them even called God ‘a baby-killer’.

To that I asked him, “I thought you claimed God didn’t exist? How could He be a baby-killer if He didn’t exist?”.

The question is, if atheists truly believe that God does not exist, why does it bother them so much when we say He does? Why do they express so much angst towards God and any mention of Him or His attributes?

I have contemplated that question for a while and I came to the conclusion that in their heart of hearts, atheists know that God exists but they just don’t want to acknowledge Him. They may deny that they ‘know’, but I will not be surprised about that.

I see no reason they should continue to engage in diatribes against God. I mean, what is the essence of trying to prove that a ‘non-existent’ God does not exist? They obviously have a problem they haven’t probably figured out!

As believers, atheists scorn us for believing that God exists. But they turn blind eyes to their own folly in not believing that He exists.

Also, they don’t fully realise their own limitation in not knowing all things yet are boldly proclaiming that God does not exist. Doesn’t that validate the biblical position that only fools say God does not exist?

The only way to know without an iota of doubt that God does not exist is to possess the capability of being ‘all-knowing’. As you know, no man alive or dead, including atheists themselves possess that kind of knowledge.

So I would totally agree with one Hank Hanegraaff when he said, “atheism involves a logical fallacy known as a universal negative. Simply stated, a person would have to be omniscient and omnipresent to be able to say “there is no God” from his own pool of knowledge.

“Only someone capable of being in all places at the same time — with a perfect knowledge of all that is in the universe — can make such a statement based on the facts. In other words, a person would have to be God to say there is no God. Hence, the assertion [that God does not exist] is logically indefensible.”

Simply put, atheists do not have what it takes to come to the conclusion that God does not exist. So when you have anyone claiming God does not exist, understand that he or she is either being insincere or are displaying their ignorance. Or as the Bible puts it, they are simply being foolish.

Just like the Sadducees that accosted Jesus over a question on resurrection, whereas they didn’t believe in resurrection, the problem with atheists who go about discrediting God and the notion of His existence is that they neither know the Scriptures nor the power of God.

By not knowing the Scriptures here, I do not mean to say that atheists have never read the Bible, because I know many of them have. The problem is that those of them who have read it lack the proper understanding of it.

***

Let the conversation continue in the comment section.

159 thoughts on “The Problems With Atheists (Finally Figured Out)

  1. keithnoback Jul 24, 2019 / 1:10 pm

    Not really.
    Speaking for myself, I don’t see consciousness being compatible with aseity or the omni-properties of God. That makes classical theism incoherent, nothing more.
    That doesn’t make me angry, either. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • VictorsCorner Jul 24, 2019 / 7:26 pm

      Does your comment here not validate the claim in this post? If by ‘conciousness’ you mean your perception or awareness of something or someone, can you not see your limitations already?

      If you knew the Scriptures you would not describe the claim that God exists as incoherent. I concede that you spoke for yourself as you stated. To that effect I would only pray that your understanding be enlightened more.7

      Liked by 1 person

      • keithnoback Jul 25, 2019 / 12:58 pm

        Well, no.
        Because, when you say “God exists”, I’m saying that you are not even wrong (on classical theism).
        Makes it hard to say I am denying something which is not a valid concept.
        It’s OK, most God talk is non-cognitive, so a solid referent is unnecessary

        Liked by 1 person

        • VictorsCorner Jul 25, 2019 / 1:22 pm

          You are free to believe what you want. But it doesn’t diminish the fact that God exists.

          Those who know, know and those who believe, believe. If you say God is not a valid concept that’s up to you. But to us who believe, that God exist is not subject to a debate by people like you.

          Like

      • clubschadenfreude Jul 29, 2019 / 4:16 pm

        Vincent, what happens when your prayer fails? Was it that your god didn’t like your prayer? That you prayed incorrectly? That your god loves an honest atheist? That your god doesn’t exist? I’ve had many Christians claim that they are praying for me to agree with them.

        Liked by 1 person

        • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 7:17 am

          There are many reasons for unanswered prayers. asking wrongly, unbelief, asking with wrong motives etc. When prayers seem unanswered, it is not God’s fault; there must be something we are getting wrong.

          Yes God loves all atheists too, whether honest or not. This love is the general love that He has for mankind as John 3:16 clearly shows: “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son[a] so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

          Those Christians who you said are praying for you actually love you by doing so. But their prayers will not override your will and turn you into a God-believer just like that. It is something you have to make up your mind on all by yourself.

          Like

          • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 2:26 pm

            So, per your argument since no prayers are answered (show me evidence to show that they are), there are indeed no Christians who are getting it right.

            And no, your god doesn’t love atheists, but you are welcome to lie about what is in your bible again, VC. Let’s look at John 3 and what you quoted:

            “16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

            17 “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.”

            So we have this version (NRSV) saying “everyone” not “anyone”. Which is it because it does make a difference when taken in context with what Paul and Jesus claim about this god picking and choosing who can accept this god. Add this to the fact that Christians do not agree on what is sin and what is not, and we have the typical incoherence of the various sects of Christianity, where no one can show that they have their god’s approval.

            Per your bible, this god will answer prayers for anything, no exceptions mentioned, will answer positively (no snakes for fishes) and they can override “free will” by this god’s interference as per this god’s answering prayers for aid in battle, etc.

            Like

            • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 6:14 pm

              It seems you take pleasure in misrepresenting issues. I didn’t say prayers don’t get answered. What part of my comment didn’t you understand?

              If you don’t even believe that God exists, why should be surprised about you not believing that prayers get answered?

              Refering to the passage you quoted, I maintain that God loves everyone. But those who reject God’s love have themselves to blame.

              Like

              • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 7:14 pm

                You said this VC “There are many reasons for unanswered prayers. asking wrongly, unbelief, asking with wrong motives etc. When prayers seem unanswered, it is not God’s fault; there must be something we are getting wrong.”

                So, prayers don’t get answered. You are welcome to show me where they are.

                I’m not surprised at all that prayers don’t get answered. I do like to demonstrate that Christians lie when they say they do, and point out that these lies get people hurt.

                Your god demonstrates repeatedly that it does not love everyone in the bible. You have your version of the Christian god, like every other Christian. Why did your god murder David’s son if it loves everyone? Is killing someone loving them?

                Like

  2. essiep Jul 24, 2019 / 2:40 pm

    It’s the ideology that I rail against. Churches have a disproportionate influence on democratically elected governments. They try to validate themselves by claiming some kind of moral authority that should be listened to.
    Some countries are better then others at keeping Christian hypocritical influence under control. More should follow as numbers of followers continues to decline.

    Liked by 2 people

    • VictorsCorner Jul 24, 2019 / 3:10 pm

      If the claim that God exists does not offend you, may be you should be more specific about the idealogies that you ‘rail against’.

      I don’t know which part of the world you are writing from, but in my part of the world, I’m sorry your claims do not hold true. Even though we now have increasingly more people who claim to be followers of God, the church here does not have a disproportionate influence (in your words) on elected governments. In fact until most recently, I could say the church here had close to zippo interest in elective government positions.

      Liked by 1 person

      • John Arthur Aug 13, 2019 / 10:54 am

        Hi Victor, Aren’t you from Nigeria? In your country, doesn’t the death penalty apply to many offences besides murder: e.g. rape, adultery, homosexuality, apostacy etc.

        So aren’t your religious institutions meddling in politics?

        Liked by 1 person

        • VictorsCorner Aug 17, 2019 / 10:20 am

          Yes, I’m from Nigeria. However, may be you should crosscheck your claim about death penalty here.

          For instance, the law against homosexuality was recently passed. It is 14 years imprisonment for any one found guilty. To the best of my knowledge, no convinctions have been made since the law was passed.

          I do not speak for religious institutions and I can’t validate your claim of their political interference. In any case, Christ did not come to change politics but to change lives.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. SpaniardVIII Jul 24, 2019 / 8:51 pm

    Great post, Victor, you have truly exposed them. The force driving these atheists to go to a Christians’ blog to attack the Living God is an evil one. All they want to accomplish is for a Christian to lose his or her faith so they can boast, but behind them is a demon.

    The Bible says that we do not fight against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual forces of darkness in the heavenly places. If they truly believed that God does not exist, why fight against Him so vigorously? Because their conscience testifies that God is real, but they love their sins so much that they have to silence their conscience by convincing themselves that God is not real.

    I have done a series which is still continuing on the true darkness of atheism: https://spiritualminefield.wordpress.com/category/atheism/

    Continue the good work, my brother.

    Liked by 1 person

    • VictorsCorner Jul 24, 2019 / 9:08 pm

      Thanks for reading and commenting. I love it when you said “their conscience testifies that God is real…” That’s a good point and they lie if they try to deny it.

      I will check out the link and possibly leave you a comment as well. Once again thank you for the contribution.

      Liked by 1 person

      • SpaniardVIII Jul 24, 2019 / 9:10 pm

        As believers, we must encourage each other, especially when you see God using that person. May you have a bless day.

        Liked by 1 person

    • John Arthur Aug 27, 2019 / 10:25 am

      You’d be far better off if you entitled your series: “The True Light of Atheism”. You just display your ignorance about atheists on your blog Spaniard. You need to dismantle it if you continue upholding your false cult.

      Like

      • SpaniardVIII Aug 27, 2019 / 4:21 pm

        Lol. That was funny John. Atheism is full of darkness. God is light, and God is love. Atheism is hatred as you are a great example of that through all your ranting against God. Repent and believe the good news that Jesus is the way to the Father.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. essiep Jul 25, 2019 / 2:49 am

    Atheists don’t argue against “him”, it is you delusionusts that are the subject.

    Liked by 1 person

    • VictorsCorner Jul 25, 2019 / 7:39 am

      If those of us who believe in God are delusionists then those of you who don’t believe in Him must be worse off because atheism does not make sense at all.

      Contrary to your claim, we cannot be the subject because we are not talking about ourselves but about God and His love for mankind. You will be missing the point if that’s not your understanding. And whether you acknowledge Him or not you will one day be held accountable to Him.

      Liked by 1 person

      • essiep Jul 25, 2019 / 1:06 pm

        Hmm, but it’s you talking not your God. You are not a god nor are you a god’s spokesman.
        Unless you think you are!
        There’s an extraordinary claim that doubt you’d make.

        Liked by 1 person

        • VictorsCorner Jul 25, 2019 / 1:31 pm

          God has been talking only that you have chosen not to listen. Of course I’m not God, but I’m His son, that’s more than being His spokesman. Don’t know if that sounds strange to you. But that’s who I am.

          You say He is my God, true. But He can also become your God if you would let Him. He is already knocking at the door of your heart (right now as you read this). Would you let Him in?

          Like

            • VictorsCorner Jul 26, 2019 / 11:54 am

              Oh wow, I believe it is.

              To believe or not to believe in God is a choice all of us have to make. And it is not just about believing that God exists, but also establishing a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. Apart from that, there is no other way to know God.

              Like

              • essiep Jul 26, 2019 / 5:41 pm

                Put it like this then, I cannot choose to believe something that bears no resemblance to anything in real life; that appears absurd and whimsical in a way that offers no apparent benefit to a healthy productive life; I cannot choose to accept a book of stories that appear to condone immoral actions and beliefs and that describe a world that does not reflect the one we all live in.
                There is no choice for me but to reject all that nonsense.

                Liked by 1 person

                • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 7:52 am

                  I wonder if there is anything else more whimsical than the believe that the God doesn’t exit. Sad!

                  Like

      • John Arthur Aug 27, 2019 / 1:17 pm

        Some of us just breathe in slowly and deeply and then breathe out slowly. We breathe in peace and breathe out compassion. We can feel a presence, but there is no need to postulate any presence of any god. it’s just the presence of love.

        They tell me that you might consider doing meditation. It will help you relate to others better than any Fundamentalism. You are a good guy who is misguided. Don’t let Spaniard continue to mislead you.

        Like

        • VictorsCorner Aug 29, 2019 / 5:45 pm

          I’m not misguided. I know God.

          God is love. Those who don’t know God don’t really understand love.

          Like

    • SpaniardVIII Aug 3, 2019 / 8:13 am

      If atheists don’t argue against God then what are you doing here?…lol. Come on man, who are you fooling? Go find your missing link or should I say, cousin. Come back when you find it. I don’t think I’ll see you for a long time or millions of years until Nothing creates it…LOL

      Liked by 1 person

      • essiep Aug 3, 2019 / 9:14 am

        Arguing against the usual nonsense that you publish on the internet, that’s what I’m doing. There isnt a god to argue with, we’re arguing with you.

        Like

        • SpaniardVIII Aug 3, 2019 / 3:18 pm

          How can you be arguing against me if I’m preaching about Jesus, not about me. The reason why you are bothered is because the Holy Spirit keeps convicting you of sin, but you are fighting Him off, thus the backlash.

          Liked by 1 person

          • essiep Aug 3, 2019 / 3:23 pm

            They’re your fingers on the keyboard, you can avoid that fact.

            Like

            • SpaniardVIII Aug 3, 2019 / 3:27 pm

              So, having no evidence for the Transitional form is having fact?

              Like

              • essiep Aug 3, 2019 / 3:46 pm

                Not getting any clearer, have you been drinking?

                Like

          • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 6:49 pm

            @SpaniardVIII, I agree with you on this. “The reason why you [atheists] are bothered is because the Holy Spirit keeps convicting you of sin, but you are fighting Him off, thus the backlash Thank you.

            Liked by 1 person

            • SpaniardVIII Aug 4, 2019 / 3:32 am

              It’s funny how they come to your blog to attack Jesus and then at the same time say that they don’t hate Jesus because He doesn’t exist. My question to there contradiction is, why are you here telling me this if you don’t hate Him or believe He exist? It is like they are trying to convince themselves with their own lie.

              Victor, I don’t really believe in the atheists claim. I say this because they try so hard, really hard, to disprove of a person who they claim is imaginary. Does that makes sense to you? It doesn’t to me.

              Liked by 1 person

              • VictorsCorner Aug 4, 2019 / 8:16 am

                You are right. Atheism does not make sense at all. It’s all foolishness parading as knowledge.

                I thank God for His mercies that are seeing some atheists coming to Christ. How I wish this ones here will see their follow and come to Christ too before it is too late for them.

                Like

        • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 6:48 pm

          @Essiep, Somehow, the so-called published nonsense makes sense to you, pierces your heart, shines the light in your dark heart exposing the wrong things you believe, and then you couldn’t resist commenting.

          Truth be told, if the message doesn’t worth your time you wouldn’t be here. May you find what you are truly searching for.

          Like

          • essiep Aug 5, 2019 / 4:35 pm

            You invite atheists by tagging the post with #atheism.

            Liked by 1 person

      • essiep Aug 3, 2019 / 12:32 pm

        Missing.link, cousin… Wtf are you rambling on about now?

        Like

        • SpaniardVIII Aug 3, 2019 / 3:23 pm

          I see, your answer is, rambling with a curse word. Of course, what else can you say about your missing-link, your boy is missing.

          Like

          • essiep Aug 3, 2019 / 3:25 pm

            Your incoherence continues. What ‘boy’? What missing link; stop avoiding the question!

            Like

          • John Arthur Aug 29, 2019 / 10:33 am

            Aren’t you the missing link, Spaniard? You seem to have swung out of the jungle with a banana in your mouth. Or are you really an ape?

            Like

      • John Arthur Aug 27, 2019 / 10:30 am

        We are simply asking questions that you guys refuse to answer. Your claim to have answered the reasons why God is supposed to have butchered little children and babies was laughable. What responsibility did little babies have for anything that happened in Sodom and Gommorah?

        Like

        • SpaniardVIII Aug 27, 2019 / 4:33 pm

          What you and your posses have to understand is that God owns you and I and He alone has the right to bring to death who He wants. Now, saying that, Adolf Hitler was once a baby, if God would have kill the baby you would have condemned God. Since God didn’t kill the baby and he grow up to kill millions of people you blame God for not killing Hitler as a baby knowing what he was going to do. You condemn God if He does and condemn Him if He doesn’t

          No matter what the Lord does, you haters of all that is good will never accept the goodness of God even though, you having a roof over your head, clothes, car, money, house, and are still living is evidence of God’s goodness to you. The Bible says that He sends rain to the good and the evil. Rain in the context refers to provisions.

          Liked by 1 person

          • John Arthur Aug 27, 2019 / 11:27 pm

            ll the Amalekite children weren’t Hitler’s, were they?

            Like

          • John Arthur Aug 27, 2019 / 11:27 pm

            ll the Amalekite children weren’t Hitler’s, were they?

            Like

            • VictorsCorner Aug 29, 2019 / 5:48 pm

              They were corrupted. They might have been worse than Hitler had they been allowed to grow. So they too were judged.

              Liked by 1 person

          • John Arthur Aug 27, 2019 / 11:27 pm

            ll the Amalekite children weren’t Hitler’s, were they?

            Like

            • SpaniardVIII Aug 28, 2019 / 12:43 am

              Apparently, you don’t understand, why would you. How could you. You are hopeless, your heart is too hard to penetrate. Your heart’s darkness is too dark to allow God’s light to come in. It doesn’t matter what any says, you will stay in your sins.

              Liked by 1 person

              • John Arthur Aug 29, 2019 / 3:22 am

                It’s you that doesn’t understand. You don’t have any inkling of any morality when you support a book that commands the butchery of little children and babies.

                Like

                • SpaniardVIII Aug 29, 2019 / 3:50 am

                  You and your atheists who love abortion and kill millions of babies and yet you have the gall with s stone face to say that God is not righteous but you baby killers are. What blasphemy and hypocrisy. God is Creator of all humans and has the right to take life or to give life, but you baby killers don’t have any rights to take someone else’s life.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • John Arthur Aug 29, 2019 / 10:51 am

                    Atheism and abortion are two very different topics. Atheists are not baby killers as you put it. It is you Fundamentalist Christian nutters who approve of baby killing, including Joshua’s troops hacking pregnant women to death. You religious crackpots approve the baby killing by God at the Great Flood when he murdered all the pregnant women that were not in the so-called Ark by drowning them. Your god was the greatest abortionist of all time.

                    Like

                    • SpaniardVIII Aug 29, 2019 / 4:27 pm

                      I already gave you my answers and have shown to you the righteousness of the Almighty God. But, you continue to reject Him. I can’t make you see the truth. If you want to stay blind, that is your choice. Spaniard out.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 29, 2019 / 5:50 pm

                      Once again, by your comment here you have acknowledged there is God. Admit it. You need God.

                      Liked by 1 person

          • John Arthur Aug 27, 2019 / 11:27 pm

            ll the Amalekite children weren’t Hitler’s, were they?

            Like

        • VictorsCorner Aug 29, 2019 / 5:42 pm

          You criticise what you don’t understand. If you knew God and His Justice, you would be better for it.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. RaPaR Jul 26, 2019 / 6:57 pm

    Oh, ye of faith…how silly are thee? I know scripture and it is nothing more than myths and legends written by MEN; not god, not god-inspired, nothing of the sort. Not even eyewitnesses! Not a one! There are holes in NT scripture you can drive a tractor trailer though and it is YOU that does not see. Can YOU not see how your “belief” in “something” clouds and obfuscates reality because you go in to the material with a built-in bias towards belief? I am not angry at god because there is no god. I am angry at those who choose to continue to pander this nonsense to the unsuspecting, uneducated, youth, the elderly, etc for whatever pernicious reasons you hold; more than likely because it is YOU that is afraid of what will happen if you acknowledge your belief is nothing more than a fantasy. Where do you go from there?
    Jesus is dead. He was executed by Pontius Pilate as a seditionist for claiming to be the “King of the Jews” against the agenda of Rome. He believed he was the Messiah and found out rather quickly and brutally that he was greatly mistaken. Furthermore Pilate wouldn’t dream of mercy for an unknown, unimportant Jew. He saw to it that Jesus languished on the cross until he died, then continued to hang there until his bones literally fell to the ground. Then, in all likelihood, they re-used the cross and the nails for the next savior to claim messianic status. All to present an example to the people of Judah not to screw with Rome. Period, end of story. If Saul hadn’t come along and make up a whole new story, we wouldn’t be talking about this at all.
    Perhaps we’d be talking about how the ancient aliens helped build the pyramids or some such nonsense, also without a shred of evidence of any kind, just like god.

    Liked by 2 people

    • VictorsCorner Jul 26, 2019 / 9:57 pm

      Rather than being offended, I found your response very hilarious. So thank you for reading and commenting.
      You profess that you have read the scriptures. But clearly you lacked in undestanding of it.

      You saw that Jesus was cruxified by Pilate and you believe it, which is good. So thank you for that.

      But that’s just part of the story. The full story is that Jesus rose from the dead and went to Heaven. (I assume you know that too. But you chose to believe only the part you want). And He is coming back again; this time to judge the world, including people like you, who mock Him and His followers.
      The Bible is the only inspired scripture on earth, contrary to your claim. Yes, what we say bothers you because you know that our message is true and cuts through to your heart and hunts you day and night.

      You can deny it for all you want. But you know what I’m talking about. I only wish that you would open up your heart and let the light of God flush away the darkness within it.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. RaPaR Jul 27, 2019 / 1:01 pm

    Stop, silly man, you’re only weakening your own argument. I never said Jesus didn’t exist, I think there is enough evidence to conclude that he was, in fact, a real person. A person of almost no consequence during his lifetime, until his followers produced the world’s first – and longest running – multi-level marketing scheme. (Face it, there’s A LOT of money in that racket!) But rose from the dead? Really? You don’t understand how completely ridiculous that sounds; no one else before or after has ever risen from the dead, sorry to bust your fantasy bubble or diminish whatever trip you’re on, and Jesus didn’t either. Been there, done that. I went through all that; the belief, the prayers, Lent, the sacraments, original sin, the guilt, the nonsense, and guess what? I came to see that it is all just mythology, nothing more. As you would wish for me to find “understanding,” I too, would wish for you to find reason and faith within yourself and those that you love. I do not deny that one can find inspiration in parts of the Bible, I have studied it for decades now, however Jesus is not coming back after 2000 years. It is just irrational to believe in such nonsense.

    There is no darkness in my heart, quite the contrary. I am happier than I have ever been in my life having found purpose and love. You can as well without a make-believe god or any cult for that matter. Find your own belief system, find faith in your loved ones and even yourself. You’ll be much better off for it.

    Peace.

    Liked by 1 person

    • VictorsCorner Jul 27, 2019 / 10:33 pm

      From your story, I could deduce that you never had a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The difference between that and mere practice of religion as in your own case is more than the difference between night and day. You held the shadow and not the real thing.

      Even though you don’t want to hear it, Jesus loves you and wants a relationship with you. That’s the only way to secure your eternal destination.

      Whether you like it or not, one day life on earth will end. Then what? You will come face to face with the God you don’t want to acknowledge here and now.

      I already have my belief system. It includes the fact that there is a God who loves us enough to send His son Jesus to die for us for the remission of our sins. That accepting this work of Jesus is the only way to get salvation of our souls. That anyone who denies Jesus will perish.
      I could go on and on but I like to think that my point is made already.

      Liked by 1 person

      • essiep Jul 28, 2019 / 7:30 am

        ‘Believe or suffer god’s revenge’ is your point. At heart, a vindictive vengeful belief system.
        Where do you get such whimsical ideas from?

        Like

        • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 4:07 am

          Not exactly my point. But it is called justice, divine justice. Whatever choices you make, you shouldn’t be afraid to face the resultant consequences, especially after you have been forewarned. Should you?

          It is not a whimsical idea. Neither is it vindictive. It is a well established, documented God’s justice system established over two thousand years ago.

          There is reward for obedience and punishment of disobedience. Disobedience here means rejection of God’s grace in Christ. You don’t spun the grace of God and expect no consequences. No you shouldn’t.

          Like

          • John Arthur Aug 12, 2019 / 12:22 pm

            Are you a Catholic? Do you accept the teaching magisterium of the church? Isn’t it the church that interprets the bible? Or are you really an atheist who is masquerading under the mask of Protestant Fundamentalism?
            If you’re a Fundamentalist, the former Fundamentalist pastor (now atheist) called Bruce Gerencser will chop your arguments up and make mince meat of them. He doesn’t hate God. He just doesn’t believe that God exists. What he hates is Fundamentalists pontificating on God and Fundamentalists misrepresenting atheists.
            You guys, both Catholics and Protestants, are suffering from what Richard Dawkins calls “The God delusion”.

            Like

            • VictorsCorner Aug 17, 2019 / 10:02 am

              I’m not a Catholic, neither am I Protestant fundamentalist, as you put it. And your suggestion that I could be an atheist is even more laughable. How could I be so foolish as to be an atheist? I know better!

              For the avoidance of doubts, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ who believes in God as the creator of all things, who has accepted the saving grace that is available in Christ Jesus alone for the forgiveness of my sin and I’m living my life to please God.

              I understand what the Bible says, “only fools say God doesn’t exist.” So between those of us who believe that God exists and those that don’t believe, we know who is delusioned.

              Dawkins book is seriously mistaken in the claim that there is no God. From the reviews I have read, I know the book is an attack on God and Christianity. Anger. Hatred.

              It is okay to note that the God he claims doesn’t exist, makes him so angry. That’s the same trait I have seen in many atheists I have interacted with.

              Like

                • VictorsCorner Aug 18, 2019 / 7:09 am

                  You are welcome John. Thank you for stopping by too.

                  Like

                  • John Arthur Aug 29, 2019 / 11:02 am

                    Hi Victor,

                    I must warn you about Spaniard viii. You are too nice a guy that I would hate to see you get caught up in his cult. Although, from an atheist’s perspective you are misguided, I think that you are genuine in your beliefs (unlike Spaniard who is one big hypocrite). At least you believe that if god exists, then God is love. Spaniard spews out a god of hate mixed in with a sugar coated god of love, whose hate is masquerading as love. BEWARE!

                    Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 29, 2019 / 5:52 pm

                      Thank you, but don’t worry about me. Worry about your heart that doesn’t want to acknowledge God.

                      Liked by 1 person

  7. Dapo Alabi Jul 29, 2019 / 10:31 am

    I like this. There are different world views and we need to respect every individual for his or her choice. If God has given us free will to choose we can only hope and pray we choose wisely and influence others to do so. Philippians 2:13 ‘For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure’. Jesus equally said in John 10:14-16  ‘I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.’ My prayer is that any atheist reading this post humbly prays to encounter God through His son Jesus Christ. If you do this, you can say on judgement day(if at all it exist) that you tried. Love you all

    Liked by 1 person

    • VictorsCorner Jul 29, 2019 / 10:47 am

      Amen. Thank you for the contribution.

      Like

    • clubschadenfreude Jul 29, 2019 / 4:22 pm

      So, Dapo, as I was losing my faith, I did exactly this “humbly prays to encounter God through His son Jesus Christ.”

      Nothing happened. Now, we have two failed prayers, yours and mine. Now, what is the explanation of why they failed? Is it that we both prayed incorrectly? That your god is happy to have atheists, since per Romans 9, it creates them? Or is it that there is no god?

      Many Christians will blame the one praying if it is an atheist saying that they had prayed like they are told to do by Christians. However, what is the excuse for a Christian who is ignored by their god?

      Like

      • Dapo Alabi Jul 29, 2019 / 5:33 pm

        Brilliant. You have tried by making the first step to seek God. Hebrews 11:6 ‘But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.’ Please try again, but this time believe with more conviction in your heart that he is. I will join you in prayer and I strongly believe God will reveal Himself to you.

        Liked by 2 people

        • clubschadenfreude Jul 29, 2019 / 5:49 pm

          Your bible says that faith isn’t needed, Dapo, in the story of Doubting Thomas. Your bible contradicts itself constantly.

          It’s hilarious to see you tell me “try again”. Ah, it’s always my fault when your god fails isn’t it? 🙂 Okay, join me in prayer: God, it’s me. A very long time ago I believed in you. I’d like to again, but I need evidence. You had no problem in presenting Gideon and Thomas with evidence when they didn’t have enough faith. Please show me that you exist and aren’t the genocidal tribal god that that the bible depicts. I ask that every amputee is healed in my local VA hospital in Lebanon Pennsylvania before they die as your son healed those in the bible. I have a lot of military people in my family and I know their families would be overjoyed if you helped them. In Jesus name I pray, Amen.”

          Liked by 2 people

          • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 3:42 am

            I am not aware of anywhere in the Bible that says faith is not needed. My humble understanding is that faith is required in relating with God.

            For instance, we are told that “.. without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.” Hebrew 11:6.

            I don’t know what you have in mind, but the God depicted in the Bible is the true God. If you would seek Him with all your heart, you will find Him. Just like the Thomas and |Gideon you made references to.

            Like

            • clubschadenfreude Jul 31, 2019 / 6:31 pm

              Victor, do you remember Gideon and Thomas?

              I have sought this god with all my heart when I was losing my faith. No answer. Thomas and Gideon got answers. I did not.

              Will you blame me for that?

              Liked by 2 people

              • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 9:56 pm

                Of course, I remember the story of Gideon and Thomas on how they became convinced about God. Unfortunately, as you have found out, it doesn’t work that way for everybody.

                People find God in different ways. So don’t be surprised that your search for God did not work out the way it did for Gideon and Thomas. My advise will be, please don’t give up. “You will seek me and find me” God assures, “when you seek me with all your heart.” Jeremiah 29:13

                Actually, in addition to seeking God with all your heart, the key in finding God is to believe that He exists. That may sound ironical but it is true.

                Recall that in the case of Thomas whom you referred to earlier, Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:29).
                The point is that you believe before you can see.

                Thomas needed to physically touch Jesus before he could believe that Jesus had resuurrected, yet there were others who believed first before they.

                Like I said before the way each one of us came to know God may be different. If you have the time please read the story of Marilyn Adamson, a former atheist and an intellectual, on how she came to prove that God exists. see the link below: https://www.everystudent.com/wires/atheist.html

                If you don’t mind, I would like to know what you think after reading it.

                Like

                • clubschadenfreude Aug 1, 2019 / 6:50 pm

                  Yep, it doesn’t work out that way for everybody since one is a story and we haev reality where there are no gods. Amazing isn’t it how the claims of the bible never happen in real life, just like the claims of the myths of other cultures never happen either?

                  Again, VC, I did seek with all of my heart, so your claim fails. It’s also pretty funny that you claim that the only way one can find this god is to believe with no evidence that it exists. Now, how does that work with other religions claiming the same thing? Do you accept that you just need to beleive in Allah, to find him?

                  That verse from John shows you are wrong again. JC had no problem with giving evidence and did nothing to Thomas other than chide him a little. Thomas was still a Christian.

                  Ms. Adamson claism that the universe is too “perfect” to not have a god. Well, again, which god? Can you show that yours is the creator among all of the other candidates that believe they have the truth like you do? All of her “evidence” is used by every other theist, who is sure that they are right and she is wrong, all with no evidence. If a Muslim or a Wicca or a Bahai, etc gave you the same reasons to believe as Adamson does, would you accept what they say as the truth? Why or why not?

                  Like

                  • VictorsCorner Aug 1, 2019 / 11:54 pm

                    Good to know you read that article I sent you. I am sure you picked something from it- just saying. That was her story. One day you will have yours. I don’t know how, but it is possible.

                    Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 3, 2019 / 2:20 am

                      I already have my story, VC. I picked up from it what I stated. It is a shame that christians have to make up false claims about other people.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 6:26 am

                      You make false claims about God and His followers and nobody should many any claim about you? How convenient!

                      Anyway, no one is making any false claims about you. By your fruit we know you.

                      God says that if you seek Him with all your heart, you will find Him. You claimed that you had sought God with all your heart and you didn’t find Him. It shows that either God or you are lying. Trust me, I know God is not the one lying.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 3, 2019 / 4:20 pm

                      Well, we know that you can repeat others, although you have yet to support your claims.

                      So, what “fruit” is this, VC?

                      Again, I sought this god with all of my heart. Nothing happened. So your claims are false. All you have now is trying to claim I didn’t seek with all of my heart and you have no evidence of that. All you have is a no true scotsman argument.

                      Since, you have no evidence that your god exists, and you can’t convince your fellow Christians your version is the only right one, your claims that you know your god are not believable. All Christians claim the same thing and all of you get different answers.

                      Like

            • John Arthur Aug 13, 2019 / 6:28 am

              But isn’t faith believing in something without any supporting evidence, or believing in something in spite of the evidence.

              I suppose that you don’t believe in fairies, leprechauns, goblins and other invisible evidence because there is no evidence for their existence? Do you believe in the existence of angels, demons, Satan and god(s)? What evidence can you use to support your beliefs? Or do you just go by faith?

              Liked by 1 person

              • VictorsCorner Aug 17, 2019 / 10:14 am

                No, faith is not “believing in something without any supporting evidence…”. It is believing in the reality of something even though the senses can’t perceive it yet. As the Bible puts it, “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

                Of course there are angels, demons and Satan. The Bible clearly shows that those exist. The preponderance of evil around the world is a clear testimony of the fact that Satan exists. He is the father of evil.

                Like

                • John Arthur Aug 18, 2019 / 3:40 am

                  Thanks for your reply, Victor. Couldn’t we say that Satan and demons are mythical entities that appear in Christianity and some other religions as figurative expressions of human evil? Isn’t it persons that commit evil. One problem that I am concerned about is people committing evil acts against others and saying “the devil made me do it.” Some Christians (not all by a long shot) are trying to absolve themselves from their personal moral responsibility by blaming it on the devil (diabolos, i.e. the diabolical one). I’m not suggesting that you are doing this. You seem to be more level headed than some.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • VictorsCorner Aug 18, 2019 / 7:30 am

                    Thanks John for the compliment. Your position is noted.
                    However, I will clarify the points as follows:

                    1) Satan and demons are spiritual entities, not mythical ones. They are real and not figurative, and they exert some real influence on humanity, not by force but on anyone that yields to them.

                    2) You are right that it is persons that commit evil, but usually they can be influenced by many factors, including Satan himself. Just as God works through people, Satan works through people too.

                    3) Despite the evil influence of Satan, we are all responsibility for our actions whether Christian or not. In order words, “the devil made me do it” is never an admissible excuse before God or before our common law.

                    4) Being Christian should actually increase one’s moral responsibility to do good, and not in any way abdicate it as you suggested. The only thing is that we should rely on the greater power of God to overcome all satanic influences that make people do evil. That’s why God gives us the Holy Spirit for such empowerment. And if we live our lives pleasing God, we will not be doing Satan’s bidding at the same time.

                    5)Please don’t doubt it: Satan, demons and angels exist. The only difference is that as spiritual beings,they do not have the physical body to walk through the earth. And that’s why they must work through humans who do. The good thing is that they can only use or influence us to the extent that we allow them.

                    Like

                    • John Arthur Aug 18, 2019 / 12:26 pm

                      Many humanists believe that we should love all other persons whom we meet on life’s journey. So we don’t worry about whether there is a Satan or demons. Wouldn’t God (if he/she or it exists) want people to love other human beings whom they have seen? Isn’t God (if God exists) unconditional, others-centred, self-giving, community-forming and life-affirming compassion, healing-mercy and loving-kindness?

                      Isn’t showing love what is important than belief in invisible beings which may or may not exist?

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 18, 2019 / 2:41 pm

                      You are right on your observation about love. We are to love other people whom we meet. Love your neighbour as yourself is what the Bible tells us to do.

                      In fact, Jesus summarised the moral code to be 1) love God with all your heart, soul and might and 2) love your neighbor as yourself.

                      You can call it having love for God and love for man.

                      Our God is a God of love. Our walk with Him is a walk of love. Actually, one of the proofs that we know God is how much we are able to work in love.

                      Note that human love is selfish. It is incapable of loving other people unconditionally. That’s why we need the love of God in our hearts.

                      As children of God, He puts divine love in our hearts. This is the kind of love that can overcome evil.

                      Like

        • Dapo Alabi Jul 30, 2019 / 5:59 pm

          clubschadenfreude I certainly understand your need for answers. Our Creator does not need to prove to his creation that he is. Its to our benefit if we seek him. Do not be deceived (like Eve in the garden) God cannot be mocked whatsoever you sow you will reap. Gal 6:7. You cannot dishonor God and expect he honors you in return.

          Liked by 1 person

        • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 3:37 am

          Thank you Dapo for lending your voice to this.

          Like

  8. clubschadenfreude Jul 29, 2019 / 4:13 pm

    “The question is, if atheists truly believe that God does not exist, why does it bother them so much when we say He does? Why do they express so much angst towards God and any mention of Him or His attributes?”

    Because your fantasies cause harm. I can also point out that Darth Vader isn’t a nice guy too and if someone went around insisting that destroying a planet is perfectly fine, I’d also speak out against that nonsense.

    and this “The only way to know without an iota of doubt that God does not exist is to possess the capability of being ‘all-knowing’. As you know, no man alive or dead, including atheists themselves possess that kind of knowledge.”

    Hmmm, that’s not true at all, unless you want to claim that your god has no attributes we can test and per your bible, it does. Is the bible wrong? Also, if your god is just a worm on Zeta Reticuli IV, then yep, we might not be able to say it doesn’t exist. However, if your god supposedly did a lot of things on this earth that would have left evidence, then we can look for that evidence and know quite a bit about if your god exists or not. Let’s see. No evidence for the magical flood (no massive flood deposit sorted hydraulically), no evidence of an “exodus” of 600,000 + people and animals (no latrines, no quail bones, etc). no evidence of fabulous palaces or temples or the tons and tons of precious metals and gems in them, no evidence of a day where there was a major earthquake, the sky darkening and the dead Jewish patriarchs wandering around Roman occupied Jerusalem, etc.

    There is also the problem that, per his own claims, Vincent can’t claim that no other gods exist. He can’t possibly know, right? And per his claim, he can’t have the proper understanding of the bible since he claims since humans can’t know everything, we can’t know anything for sure.

    Like

    • VictorsCorner Jul 29, 2019 / 6:45 pm

      Thanks for stopping by. I believe the evidence of God are everywhere for all to see. The breath on your nostrils, the brain in your skull, the hands you are using to type these comments, were not products of chance. They were carefully made by God, contrary to what you may have been told.

      When it comes to seeking God, you have to come to Him in faith. You believe before you see, and not vice versa.

      Like

      • clubschadenfreude Jul 29, 2019 / 7:08 pm

        VC, most if not every theist makes the same claim as you “the evidence of X are everywhere to see.” How do you propose to support your claim that it is your version of your god?

        And if our bodies were made by your god so supposedly wonderfully, why do we have children with anencephaly? Why do brains have medical issues if this supposed perfect being made them? I will assume you’ll claim the “fall” which is just your god evidently harming people for the actions of two that it either was too ignorant to know that the snake was in the garden or it let it in on purpose. Is that just or fair? Your god doesn’t seem to think so when it says it would only punish people for their own sins in Ezekiel (of course it does say the exact opposite in Exodus). Of course, per the bible, this god harms people to show off, like the blind man in John 9, so maybe your god does want such harm to exist. Would you like to be blind just because a god wanted to show off?

        Per your own bible, your supposed savior did miracles so people would believe (John 10 and the observers didn’t have to have just faith. We see this again in your god having no problem with providing evidence to Gideon and Thomas. This god also says to test him by tithing and this god will pour blessings down (Malachi 3), again not needing only faith as Paul and his modern followers have invented.

        Is your bible wrong?

        Liked by 2 people

        • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 3:54 am

          The Bible is never wrong. But one has to read it and understand it in it’s proper context – every time – otherwise, one may make a mockery of it as you appear to be doing right.

          The imperfects in our bodies were not caused by God, but by human errors. For instance, a pregnant woman was advised against taking some pills, she didn’t heed. later her baby was born with some deformities.

          Was that God’s fault? No. And there are many cases like that.

          I am glad you mentioned the Fall, because that actually was the beginning of all the problems – spiritual, physical and emotional- that we face in the world today. And it is not about to stop.

          That is why God is preparing a new earth devoid of imperfections and all the problems you highlighted. The only criteria to make it there eventually is to have faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. And that is the whole essence of my post.

          Like

          • clubschadenfreude Jul 31, 2019 / 6:46 pm

            Victor, you and every other Christian make the same claim, that you and you alone have the “proper context”. In that Christians don’t agree on what this god wants, what is sin, how to be saved, there is no reason to think any of you have the right answers. And since none of you can do the healing promised, there is no reason to again believe you have some truth. I really wish you could heal, then we could help amputees and kids with cancer.

            You want to blame humans for doing things “wrong”, when there are plenty of abnormalities not caused by human error. Your ignorance of birth defects is unfortunate. Like many Christians, you want to laud your god, but when its supposed “perfect” universe isn’t that, then it becomes the fault of humans, as opposed to the failure of a supposed omnipotent god.

            There is no evidence for a “fall”, VC, as there is no evidence of a flood, the exodus, or the cruxifiction and resurrection. What we have is a myth like so many others explaining why there is evil in the world. Most, if not every, religion has one. This one is about a god that either intentionally allowed evil into the garden or was to impotent to keep it out. Then this god repeatedly tries to straighten out what it did, by trying a flood, then trying Moses and the laws, and then finally a blood sacrifice. We then have a prophecy that this god will work with this evil again, making humans cooperate with this evil, and then intentionally allowing this evil to corrupt Christians who live under the rulership of Christ after everyone else is killed.

            Christians have been promising this “new earth” for a couple of thousand years now. With no evidence that you are correct, there is no reason for faith. Thomas didn’t need any, and JC only chided him for it. JC did miracles to convince others he was who he said he was, they didn’t need faith either.

            Liked by 1 person

            • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 10:16 pm

              I perceive that we could continue going back and forth and making no headway with each other. In as much as I want to answer your questions, I do not cherish having issues being muddled up or our discussions having so many rabbit trails, which cause unnecessary confusion. So I would really appreciate if we can be a bit more focused in our discourse here because I seem to have lost the main point of your argument.

              I am at loss if I am talking with an atheist or with someone who appear to believe in God but who have issues with things that He does. I would really like for you to state how you stand.

              Having said that, I will address a few of your concerns. 1) I know that many Christians disagree on so many things, but when it comes to salvation, we all agree that it can only come by grace though faith in Jesus Christ. Anything else apart from that is incorrect.

              2). I am not an expert in archaeology but I know that many historical claims in the Bible have been scientifically validated. You may want to do further search on the internet on any one you have doubts about.

              3. The promise of a new earth to all those who believe in God through Jesus Christ is still a promise that will come to pass. 2 The apparent delay is because God wants people like you to be part of it too. So if you don’t make up your mind fast, you will miss out big time and you will have no one to blame but yourself for that.

              The Bible says in 2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

              Thank you for your time.

              Like

              • clubschadenfreude Aug 1, 2019 / 8:21 pm

                There is nothing to show you want to answer any questions, VC. You can just take a question and answer it. No rabbit holes at al.
                I’m an atheist who was a Christian and who doesn’t like Christians who try to spread false information about atheists and claim that there is something “wrong” with people who don’t agree with you. You also see to be trying the common Christian argument that if someone criticizes your god, then they somehow have to believe it exists and agree with you. That doesn’t work since I can criticize any character, fictional or real.
                We have Christians who have vastly differing versions of Jesus Christ, this god and the actions that they find to be “sinful”. Only some Christians believe in sola gratia or sola fide. You, like most Christians, claim that only your version is correct, but you have no more evidence for that than any other Christian.
                I know you are a not an expert in archaeology, especially when you make the claim that “many historical claims in the bible have been scientifically validated.” This is not the case. A search on the internet confirms this. There is no evidence of the exodus, the flood (I’m a geologist), the fabulous temples and palaces, the battles of hundreds of thousands of soldiers, a certain day where there was a major earthquake, the sky darkening during the day and the dead Jewish patriarchs walking around Roman-occupied Jerusalem, etc. The closest we have is the Babylonian captivity, but the evidence for that doesn’t match what the bible claims. We do have mentions of real people and places in the bible, but if that is considered evidence of the bible being true, then a Spider-man comic is true. There is also the claims about the city of Tyre in the bible, which claims that it was destroyed to the point that no one can ever find it. There are people still living there, and archaeologists have found the ruins of the older parts.
                We have had Christians making the same claims that their savior will return and their god will make a new earth for the last 2000+ years. There is no need to make my mind up “fast”. I’m curious what you think will happen if it is another thousand year or even a couple of hundred. Will the stories still be prophecies or will they be newly interpreted as just metaphor?
                It’s pretty funny that you try to claim that this god is delaying its return because of me. Per your bible, this god made people who it prevents from ever accepting it, as object lessons for the people it makes able to accept it. Again, VC, is your bible wrong in this claim about your god?
                2 peter 3 is a great excuse for a god that shows no sign of returning or existence. It also contradicts Romans 9.

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                • VictorsCorner Aug 2, 2019 / 12:00 am

                  I am moved with sympathy as I read you said all these. How I wish you knew better!

                  I know I can’t convince you there is God since your mind is made up to the contrary. From all I can see we belong to different worlds and clearly are views are different.

                  What I know is that if you seek God with all your heart and in faith, you will find Him.

                  Like

                  • clubschadenfreude Aug 3, 2019 / 2:22 am

                    No one needs your sympathy, VC. My mind isn’t made up, that’s an excuse on your part and bearing false witness against me. but I’m used to that from Christians. Again, more evidence that you don’t answer my questions despite you false claims you do. Oh well.

                    Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 6:33 am

                      Oh thanks for keeping this one brief.!

                      Why I am surprised that you rejected common sympathy? (Again that’s you exercising your freewill, which is fine by me). You rejected God and His love! What else you wouldn’t you reject?

                      Of course I answer your questions whenever they are clear and specific. I hate things being muddled.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 3, 2019 / 4:24 pm

                      it’s great to see you, who write long post whining about a long post

                      Claims of sympathy are rejected if they are based on lies, VC.

                      And excuses on why you don’t answer questions, trying to again lie that my questions are not clear and specific. That’s a shame that you think you can lie in a recording medium.

                      “Will the stories still be prophecies or will they be newly interpreted as just metaphor?”

                      Per your bible, this god made people who it prevents from ever accepting it, as object lessons for the people it makes able to accept it. Again, VC, is your bible wrong in this claim about your god?

                      Would you like to be blind just because a god wanted to show off?

                      Per your own bible, your supposed savior did miracles so people would believe (John 10 and the observers didn’t have to have just faith. We see this again in your god having no problem with providing evidence to Gideon and Thomas. This god also says to test him by tithing and this god will pour blessings down (Malachi 3), again not needing only faith as Paul and his modern followers have invented.
                      Is your bible wrong?

                      and this “The only way to know without an iota of doubt that God does not exist is to possess the capability of being ‘all-knowing’. As you know, no man alive or dead, including atheists themselves possess that kind of knowledge.”
                      Hmmm, that’s not true at all, unless you want to claim that your god has no attributes we can test and per your bible, it does. Is the bible wrong?

                      Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 9:21 pm

                      Again, we shouldn’t really be going back and forth here over the same issues. I believe I have made myself clear enough, but you chose to believe only what you want, which again is an exercise of your freewill. And respect that.

                      At this juncture, all I can say to you is this; Thanks you for worrying so much about a God that does not exist. How ridiculous!

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 4, 2019 / 2:48 pm

                      We aren’t going back and forth over the same issues. I have asked questions and you ignore them. Again, you can’t show where your bible says anything about free will, can you?

                      Now, we have you again trying a common Christian bit of nonsense, that somehow by pointing out your god is a failure, I somehow “must” believe it exists. Nope, I am pointing out how you, VC, make false claims. This goes a long way to showing how Christianity has nothing to do with making a person a humane benevolent human being.

                      You make false claims about atheists, showing you don’t care about what your bible says about bearing false witness. You also claim to have the only property understanding of the bible, when you claim that others are wrong, without evidence, I might add.

                      Oh well.

                      Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 4:21 pm

                      You claim we are not going back and forth, yet you keep ignoring my answers to your questions. On freewill for instance, kindly refer to my prior explanations.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 3, 2019 / 4:27 pm

                      “The problem is that those of them who have read it lack the proper understanding of it.”

                      still waiting for you to show that only you have the “proper understanding” of the bible and no one else does. Do the Catholics? The Jehovah’s Witnesses? Baptists? Presbyterians? Mormons?

                      If you can’t do what the bible promises baptized believers in Christ can do, why should anyone believe you have some truth?

                      Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 9:29 pm

                      I think it is mistaken to conclude that I am the only one that has proper understanding of the Bible. I never said so by any means. For your information I am still learning… and it is a lifelong experience.

                      But what I can affirm is that anyone who claims to have read the Bible but denies that God exists has missed the point, irrespective whatever religious heritage such one may claim to possess.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 4, 2019 / 2:11 am

                      VC, you have claimed this “The problem is that those of them who have read it lack the proper understanding of it.”

                      This is you claiming to have the only proper understanding of the bible. Since I know that your version isn’t what other Christians believe, it does seem to be making the claim I pointed out. You want to claim that atheists don’t and you have yet to show this is true.

                      Any theist can make the same claim as you “anyone who claims to have read “x” but denies “y” has missed the point, irrespective of whatever religious heritage such as one may claim to possess.”

                      Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 3:59 pm

                      Why are you incorrectly quoting me? Please don’t hide the truth of what I said or misleading my readers by eliminating the key words. ““anyone who claims to have read the Bible but denies that God exists has missed the point, irrespective of whatever religious heritage such as one may claim to possess.” Still a valid point!

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 5, 2019 / 4:28 pm

                      Hmmm, I didn’t incorrectly quote you at all, I showed that what you claim is what any theist can claim by replacing your particular religion with variables to show how that can work:

                      “Any theist can make the same claim as you “anyone who claims to have read “x” but denies “y” has missed the point, irrespective of whatever religious heritage such as one may claim to possess.””

                      That’s kind of amazing that you would try that false accusation, VC. You have yet to show that your version of your god exists, and reading a book like the bible is not evidence that your god exists. The book is only the claim.

                      Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 4:43 pm

                      Atheism makes no sense to me at all. The Bible is prove enough that God exists. But beyond that I have a personal relationship with Him though Jesus Christ my Lord.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 5, 2019 / 4:48 pm

                      And a Muslim will say that the Qu’ran is proof enough that Allah exists, etc. Should I believe them when they make the same claim as you? Should I believe a rabbi when he says that the Torah is evidence for God, no JC needed?

                      Most Christians claim that personal relationship with this god. And again, why is it that you disagree and can’t do what is promised that baptized believers in Christ are supposed to be able to do?

                      One would think that there are no actual Christians at all.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 5:00 pm

                      In all off this, what makes sense to me the most is that Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins. When we accept Him into our lives, we are restored to a relationship with the true God. No other religion can boast off that.

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                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 5, 2019 / 8:47 pm

                      So, what makes sense to you is that your god needed a blood sacrifice to forgive you for what this god caused, and this god tried repeatedly to fix what it did: the flood and the commandments. This is an omnipotent, omniscient being that either intentionally allows the “snake” into the garden or was too stupid to keep it out.

                      No other religion wants such an inept god or such silly stories.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 9:08 pm

                      In all of these your irrelevant arguments, what I can surmise is that you recognise that God exists. You are just not willing to admit it. Thank you.

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                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 2:32 pm

                      Again, VC, nice try but again, I can point out any number of fictional characters are wrong. I guess you are just desperate to make believe I agree with you since you have no faith but need constant external validation, to the point of making it up and bearing false witness about me to get what you need.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 6:19 pm

                      I have no faith? Stop sounding ridiculous. At least I believe in God and unfortunately you don’t. So how would you know about faith?

                      Anyway, you know I spoke the truth with my earlier comment. You were caught to the heart. But as usual, you won’t admit it.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 7:15 pm

                      Ah, so now I don’t believe in your god. Good to know. please do tell me just how I was “caught to the heart” whatever that means.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 9:59 pm

                      Somehow you know atheism is a hopeless situation to be in. But you won’t quit blaming God for whom He is, yet you claim He doesn’t exist. When you are ready, God is waiting for you to come to Him. He is the only one that can help you.

                      Like

  9. clubschadenfreude Jul 30, 2019 / 4:41 pm

    “Oh wow, I believe it is.

    To believe or not to believe in God is a choice all of us have to make. And it is not just about believing that God exists, but also establishing a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. Apart from that, there is no other way to know God.”

    You calim to believe that atheism is a choice. Now, since your bible says it isn’t, and that your god intentionally prevents some people to not be able to accept it so it can use them as an object lesson to Christians (Romans 9), is your bible wrong?

    Liked by 1 person

    • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 4:04 am

      No, the Bible is not wrong. Like i said before, every story in it has to be understood in it’s proper context.

      Believing that God exists is necessary but not compulsory. You have the freewill to decide. And that’s why it is a choice.

      God in His infinite knowledge is aware that not everyone will believe that He exists., even thous He would wish that everyone would believe in Him. So He gave up on those that refuses to be converted.

      I didn’t mean that God has given us on atheist. Rather He is calling all of them to have a change of heart.

      You don’t have to belong to that category that continuously denies
      God. This conversation is my call to you to consider accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour.

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      • clubschadenfreude Jul 31, 2019 / 6:49 pm

        So, why do Christians claim that the holy spirit gives them the “proper context” and this holy spirit gives you all different answers?

        Per your bible, there is no free will. Paul states in Romans that this god picks and chooses who will be alowed to accept this god and who don’t. Again, is paul wrong? What is the “proper context” for these verses if this is not what they mean?

        I’ve been called by Roman Catholics to accept their version of Jesus as lord and savior. Who should I consider telling me the truth and how?

        Liked by 1 person

        • VictorsCorner Jul 31, 2019 / 10:27 pm

          The truth is what the Bible says. For instance in John 1:12, we read ‘ But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.” And that’s final.

          The Holy Spirit does not contradict the Bible. In fact He inspired it so He won’t give a different answer from what the Bible says.

          Of course, there is freewill. If there was none all human beings would be like robots and would do all God’s bidding without questions.

          In fact, you are exercising your freewill when you are able to say that God doesn’t exist. Doing whatever you like is your freewill, because God doesn’t stop you in your track.

          But when one becomes “born again”, it is then he or she would expect to be let by the Holy Spirit. In order words, you no longer should do what you will but what the Holy Spirit leads you to do. It is that context that Paul was speaking.

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          • clubschadenfreude Aug 1, 2019 / 8:30 pm

            You have yet to show that the bible is the truth or your version of what it say is the truth, just like every other Christian who disagrees with you. Yep, John 1 says that and Paul contradicts it in Romans 9. Who is to be believed?
            The Holy spirit is claimed by most Christians as the source of their interpretations of the bible. Those interpretations differ greatly. Who is to be believed?
            Again, no free will in the bible, but you are welcome to show where it says this and explain how your god hardening the pharoah’s heart, forcing the Egyptians to give their wealth to the Israelites, and preventing some people from being able to accept it is free will. Also, how does free will work with miracles since by divine intervention, this god would kill free will? There is no god, so there is no reason that humans would do its bidding at all; you are working from a baseless presupposition.
            Humans have no real free will, but since we can’t be consciously aware of what influences me, we can act like we do. Since this god doesn’t exist then this god can’t stop anything.
            Since Christians don’t agree on what this god wants, there is no way to know which of you, if any are led by the holy spirit. Each claims to be led by the holy spirit and you all have the same arguments. You claim to know what the context that Paul was speaking in. There is nothing to show that he was saying that people have free will and that you have a choice to do what you want. The word should does not appear or is implied in Romans 9. You are of course welcome to explain where it is.

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            • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 6:15 am

              “God has given all of us the absolute ability to makes choices in life. We have the ability to choose good or evil, right or wrong, self or others” That’s the meaning of freewill.
              Unfortunately, that same freewill is what people use against Him or rebel against Him.

              Your freewill is what you are using to comment here (you can choose not to comment). It is what you are using to claim that God does not exist (as against believing that He exists).

              Your freewill is what you use to do whatever you – good or evil. Without freewill, you would b nothing but a robot (which I know you are not).

              If there is no freewill, no one should be held responsible for his actions. But no matter how hard try to deny it, you can’t change the fact that you have freewill and you are responsible for your actions before God and you will be accountable to Him about them.

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              • clubschadenfreude Aug 3, 2019 / 4:16 pm

                Again, VC, your bible insists that there is no free will. Why should I believe you when you ignore your own holy book? As soon as your god does a miracle that prevents a human from doing what they want, free will is gone. This god controlled the minds of the pharoah, the egyptian people and says that it prevents some people from accepting it. No free will. No free will for David’s son since your god murdered him.

                I do not believe in an absolute free will, but I think humans do act like we have it and we can change our minds. I can choose to comment or not. I can’t choose to believe or not that molten steel will burn my bare hand.

                You make the baseless claim that if there is free will no one should be held responsible for their actions. Why not?

                And no, I won’t be accountable to this god since, again, we have no more evidence it exists than Allah exists or Vishnu or the Wiccan goddess etc.

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                • VictorsCorner Aug 3, 2019 / 6:58 pm

                  Perhaps you are reading a different Bible. Mine clearly has freewill embedded in it. I put it to you that you have freewill, and that makes you accountable to God either now or hereafter.

                  I know the thought that you might be held accountable by the God you don’t believe in troubles your heart so much. That’s why you can’t keep your nose out of discussions about God.

                  You know what, the only to be at peace with God and at peace with yourself is to give your life to Jesus. You need not suffer the consequences of your sins because He has paid the price for you. All He expects from you is to believe in Him.

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                  • clubschadenfreude Aug 4, 2019 / 2:13 am

                    Where does your bible say anythign about free will, VC? What chapter and verse? And if it does say something about free will, how does a god interfering with humans work with free will?
                    That’s a simple question.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 4:13 pm

                      Remember I defined freewill earlier as your power to choose. You see it everywhere in the Bible. Perhaps a few examples will do:

                      1. Revelation 3:20 – “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Jesus does not force Himself on people. They have to accept Him by their own freewill. (Are you not exercising your freewill when you chose to reject God and everything about Him?)

                      2. John 1:12-13 -” But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name” Receiving Jesus into your your life is not by force; it is entirely up to you – and that’s freewill!

                      3. Philemon 1:14 “but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.”
                      True disciples of Jesus are not forced to do anything. We are motivated by love and we do things willingly. We are not a cult!

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 5, 2019 / 4:41 pm

                      Good, you did find a few possible verses. Now let’s compare them with what Paul says in Romans 9:
                      ” It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all Israelites truly belong to Israel, 7 and not all of Abraham’s children are his true descendants; but “It is through Isaac that descendants shall be named for you.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as descendants. 9 For this is what the promise said, “About this time I will return and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 Nor is that all; something similar happened to Rebecca when she had conceived children by one husband, our ancestor Isaac. 11 Even before they had been born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose of election might continue, 12 not by works but by his call) she was told, “The elder shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written,

                      “I have loved Jacob,
                      but I have hated Esau.”

                      14 What then are we to say? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses,

                      “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
                      and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

                      16 So it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. 17 For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.
                      19 You will say to me then, “Why then does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who indeed are you, a human being, to argue with God? Will what is molded say to the one who molds it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath that are made for destruction; 23 and what if he has done so in order to make known the riches of his glory for the objects of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 including us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?”

                      again,, VC, we have Paul disagreeing with what JC says in Revelation, that not all people will hear the knocking because your god prevents it. Even JC disagrees with JC when he says he is using parables to make sure people can’t accept him in Matthew 13.

                      Yep, it’s nice to see that Paul also contradicted John 1, which was written later by someone else than Paul, another version of Chrisitanity.

                      as for the verse from Philemon: that’s Paul talking, and saying this “0 I am appealing to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful both to you and to me. 12 I am sending him, that is, my own heart, back to you. 13 I wanted to keep him with me, so that he might be of service to me in your place during my imprisonment for the gospel; 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good deed might be voluntary and not something forced. 15 Perhaps this is the reason he was separated from you for a while, so that you might have him back forever, 16 no longer as a slave but more than a slave, a beloved brother—especially to me but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.”

                      So, we have Paul saying that he didn’t want to do anything to force someone’s hand, nothing about his god. We also have Paul saying that this god is controlling what is happening, sending Onesimus back. Not exactly free will, is it?

                      Religions/cults claim that they are motivated by love, when they are all about control.

                      Like

                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 4:55 pm

                      The verses on freewill I quoted are just few out of the many there are in the Bible. If you believed in God, you would know that we follow Him out of our own volition, not as robots.

                      The scriptures you quoted actually complement another; they are not in contradiction. Remember what I said before, context is everything in understanding the Bible.

                      The things God gave us are like open an cheque. It is signed and authorised but without the beneficiary’s name. It is your responsibility to put your name where appropriate.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 5, 2019 / 8:45 pm

                      No, VC, there aren’t many more. That’s a false statement on your part.

                      The bible states that you do follow your god as if robots. You don’t like it but that doesn’t make Paul’s, and Christ’s, words go away.

                      So, what scriptures do the words of Paul and Christ “complement”? What is the context?

                      The check analogy fails when one looks at this god and its interference with humans. Again, VC, how does free will work with your god’s interference? That’s one of those questions you don’t answer.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 9:11 pm

                      Since you don’t believe there is a God, would you know anything about following the will of that God? I do not follow God like a robot, because I have free will to obey or not to obey Him. But it is my pleasure to obey Him just like a good child would obey his or her daddy. Does not make sense to you at all?

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                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 2:36 pm

                      So, VC, do I believe in a your god or not? You keep accusing me of doing so but then here you admit that I don’t.

                      Hmmm, how do you know about following the will of your god? Yep, that’s right, the bible, just like I have been repeatedly told (and at one point believed) that this collection of books was how one knows this god.

                      Like other Christians, you pick and choose what you want to claim is true out of it dependent on your personal hatreds and desires. You obey this god in what you find convenient and insist that you know your god doesn’t want you to follow the things that find inconvenient.

                      You claim that your follow your god “like a good child” just like eveyr other christian who says the same thing but strangely enough doesn’t agree with you. Who has what “daddy” wants correct?

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 6:33 pm

                      How do you care about God, His will or His word? Aren’t you an atheist anymore? It must be so confusing being an atheist! Sad!

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                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 7:22 pm

                      I care about people who lie to me and lie about me, VC. Which is it: do I agree with you about your god or not? You’ve claimed both.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 9:47 pm

                      I didn’t say you agreed with me that God exists. But I did imply that you know He exists, but won’t admit it.Your brand of atheism is just your attempt to hide the big whole in your heart, which only God can fill.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 9:16 pm

                      It’s not interference. It is yielding to Him in humble obedience. By the way, if you say GOD interferes in my affairs, at least that shows that you know He exists. So when are you going to stop living in denial?

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                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 2:41 pm

                      wow, that’s quite amazing, VC. With an omnipotent god, one would have no choice but to “yield”. No, VC, I say that the bible claims that this god interferes and that Christians claim that it interferes. I don’t believe in your nonsense at all. Please do decide if you want to lie that I agree with you or not.

                      Again, you fail with your apologetics. If miracles occur like your bible and Christians claim, then people who aren’t yielding to this god are forced to do something would not do. AKA this god is interfering with their free will.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 6:29 pm

                      Once again, thanks for unwittingly recognising that God is omnipotent. Secondly, you have come to terms with the fact that free will exits. As usual, go ahead and deny it.

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 7:20 pm

                      So we have you, VC, either desperate to beleive everyone agrees with you or being very bad at reading comprehension.

                      nope, I’m just repeating what Christians claim and comparing that with your claims to show how the contradict each other. So, assuming that this god exists and is omnipotent, just how do people resist it, VC? How do they resist “God’s Will”? We have Paul claiming that his god forced its will on the pharoah to show off. Is Paul wrong?

                      “wow, that’s quite amazing, VC. With an omnipotent god, one would have no choice but to “yield”. No, VC, I say that the bible claims that this god interferes and that Christians claim that it interferes. I don’t believe in your nonsense at all. Please do decide if you want to lie that I agree with you or not.

                      Again, you fail with your apologetics. If miracles occur like your bible and Christians claim, then people who aren’t yielding to this god are forced to do something would not do. AKA this god is interfering with their free will.”

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 9:50 pm

                      None of the above applies to me and you know that. I just don’t want to be in your shoe as an atheist.

                      Like

                  • clubschadenfreude Aug 4, 2019 / 2:14 am

                    Unfortunately, your bible disagrees with what your god expects from its worshippers. It certainly isn’t just “believe in him.” I’d suggest reading what JC says to the rich young man.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 4:19 pm

                      The Bible is clear. It is people that misunderstand sometimes. We are saved by grace through faith (Ephesian 2:8). Every other thing – including the reference you made to rich young ruler and Jesus Christ – is secondary.
                      And by the way, feel free to call “Jesus Christ” in full. Using JC is meaningless. Okay?

                      Like

                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 5, 2019 / 4:43 pm

                      Each Christian with their personal version of god and he religion says that the bible is clear and agrees with them and only them. They usually claim that the holy spirit told them they were right.

                      I will write how I will. You know JC means Jesus Christ. It’s great to see you say that Christ’s commands are “secondary”. It’s easy to say that when you like your material wealth.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 5, 2019 / 9:19 pm

                      God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in truth and in spirit, so says the Bible. Angy one that crafts his or her own way of worship other than the above is on his or own.

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                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 2:42 pm

                      Yep, the bible claims things. Where is the evidence that what it claims is true?

                      Where’s your evidence that you and you alone have the only true Christianity? How many people have you healed, VC?

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 6:23 pm

                      I believe you got my comments. So quit being petty with all these irrelevant questions.

                      If you don’t believe God exists, would you believe if I told you I healed anyone?

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                    • clubschadenfreude Aug 6, 2019 / 7:17 pm

                      The questions aren’t irrelevant at all. Your comments are claims, not evidence.

                      I certainly wouldn’t believe you if you just claimed you healed someone. I would require evidence, just like you would if some other theists claimed that they did.

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                    • VictorsCorner Aug 6, 2019 / 9:54 pm

                      Shows how much your mind is made up already not to believe anything God. So quit asking pretentious questions.

                      Like

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